Re: An "easy" MU/Fighter balance fix?

["tuan (t.) doan" <tdoan@bnr.ca>]

In message "Re: An "easy" MU/Fighter balance fix?", 
'peterm@CSUA.Berkeley.edu' writes:

>In message <"19799 Thu Jun 15 16:34:13 1995"@bnr.ca> , "tuan (t.) doan" writes:
>>In message "Re: An "easy" MU/Fighter balance fix?", 
>
>>   Hmm...then why have any classes or races; why not have just one and the
>>skill of the player depends on what the player does.  Or perhaps you feel
>>that classes/races only contributes to the initial characteristics of
>>a character; which is a good assumption but an unrealistic one.
>
>  Having one type of player would forbid having inborn immunities,
>inborn vulnerabilities, inborn affinity to magic, and 
>inborn fighting characteristics such as size and strength.
>
>  Does it not seem intuitive to you that a human would be general,
>and elf weaker physically but more capable magically, a fireborn
>immune to fire but vuln. to cold and a strong spellcaster, etc?

   Sure it does, different races has different inborn abilities.  But inborn
abilities should not be the only type of abilities available.  Classes will
allow non-inborn abilities such as choosen path or environmental constrainst.
I guess I should underline the word 'only' in the above paragraph.

>  But why should different different types of humans have different
>BASE characteristics?  Is there a subrace of humanity which has
>a 30% higher intelligence?

   Well, if you are referring to class, different types of humans (fighter,
mage, thief) have different base characteristics because 
1. they are born into those characteristics (ie: str, int, etc...)
2. the player choose to play that particular characteristics
Sure there are "subrace" of humanity which has higher intelligence.  If you
are refering to the "subrace" as actual subraces, the reason is 
obvious (inheritance).  If you are refering to the "subrace" as classes, the
reason is the path the character wish to choose and the environment that
allow a character of a class to be more intelligent than another (years of
education)

>>   Races could served as inborn abilities and determine the initial 
>>characteristic of a player while classes can served at how well a particular
>>character may advance in a particular skill/characteristics.  It is the 
>
>  Well, why have classes?  How do you work?  You have some inborn
>predilections, but do you not improve at what you practice?  All I'm
>saying is, so what if you're called a "cleric": if you smash things
>with your mace all the time you'll become very good at smashing things
>with your mace, but no better at praying.

   Classes are mainly used for non-inborn abilities.  It could be that a
player happen to choose a particular path (ie: training) or due to some 
environmental constrainst (ie: living underground gives better vision)

>>   Personally, I think there will be a balance and it will be determined not
>>by the people doing the coding/designing of the game but the players.  The
>>best design is one that allow flexible changes dictated by the players.
>
>  I've gotten so little feedback from players that I doubt they're much
>interested in giving the game a direction, in general.  They just play.
>The ones who DO care end up on this mailing list and begin coding if they
>want changes, or make maps.

   I disagreed.  I found that players has many ideas and will indeed speak
out if asked.  Also most (not all players) will assumed that the game is
rigid and does not changes, therefore will not speak out.  But given the
opportunity they will.   
   There are players and there are implementors.  The players should worry
about playability (the why) and the implementors should worry about the 
flexibility of the system (the how)

>>   I think for starter we can experiment with the 4 classes/races because
>>of its simplicity.  However, if your design/coding is flexible enough to 
>>allow expansion of additional classes/races, it would be great.
>
>  Races would be objects.  All players would have all 4 skill divisions,
>just in varying degree depending on what they do.  In practice,
>they'd have a MU-EXPERINCE, a CLERIC-EXPERIENCE, a Fighter, and thief.
>What "class" you'd be would depend on what you did.  I'm going to forward
>you (tuan) a copy of my class-proposal from long ago--if i can find it.

   I haven't had a chance to read your proposal; but as I have said, there
is not wrong with your 4 classes.  All I wanted to add was if you make the
design flexible enough to incorporate additional classes or races, then it
will be a "good" design.  As far as whether it would be a successful design
really depends on the players :-)

>PeterM

Regards,

 __  __/  /   /   __  /    |   /    Tuan T. Doan
    /    /   /   /   /   / |  /     IEC Layer Testing and Advance Technology
   /    /   /   __  /   /  | /      2201 Lakeside Blvd.  P.O. Box 833871
__/  ______/ __/ __/ __/  __/       Richardson, TX 75083-3871
"It's a kind of magic" -Highlander  Phone: 214-684-4575   Fax: 214-684-3716
Internet:  tdoan@bnr.ca             WWW: http://47.53.64.96/tdoan/tdoan.html