Re: CF: Rampant volunteerism

[David Andrew Michael Noelle <dave@Straylight.org>]

Mark Wedel wrote:
> 
>  In most cases I can think about, knowing what the cursed item is isn't really
> going to do any good - at that point, it definately is not worth anything, and
> at current time, I don't believe there are any cursed items that are really
> useful.

    Cursed stat potions.  Pray at an altar for a Remove Curse intervention,
and they become perfectly good, normal stat potions.  They even merge into a
pile of similar potions that never were cursed.
    Ring of Doom.  Un-curse it and put it on (-5 all stats) just long enough
to down a couple potions of heroism (str, dex, con spells) to get a couple
extra points out of each potion.

>  There is a problem in that a player can get an items worth, at any time, by
> examining it.  This in itself causes problems - if you figure out what the shop
> will pay for it (based on cursed, real value, and so on), then the player can
> get a pretty decent idea of what the item is.  If standard default information
> is given (which does not match the shop price), you then have a problem that a
> player has no idea what he will get for the item when he sells it.

    Perhaps examining the item should take that into account and give
different information depending on the environment.  Tell the player how
much they think it is worth, and:
 - If on a map where the character has a reputation, tell how much they
think they would get for it _here_
 - If in a shop, tell exactly how much that particular shop would buy it
for, assuming it actually is what the player thinks it is.


>  Baldurs gate deals with this in an interesting way - each item has a lore
> rating.  Each player also has a lore value (based on level and other criteria).
> If the players lore is greater than the items, he identifies it, otherwise, he
> doesn't.
> 
>  Such a system has a nice feature in that random chance is no longer used, so
> you don't need to track what items a player has tried to identify.    It also
> means a low level character might be able to identify some amount of stuff, and
> take the remainder to his high level friend which identifies the rest.

    I like that idea.  This could be implemented by showing a player exactly
what an item is, without setting its "identified" flag, if the item's "lore"
is less than or equal to the character's (intelligence stat + appropriate
identification skill).  If the item's lore is only slightly higher, the
character may perceive it as magical or cursed, but not be able to
specifically identify it.  Otherwise, it would appear to be simply a generic
object of that type.  The shopkeeper will most likely have a clearer idea of
what it is.
    Identification magic, from altars, scrolls, spells, and the like, could
be assumed to make the true nature of the object obvious in some way.  A
glyph of certification or something.  Once the spell has been cast, anyone
who examines the item, including shopkeepers, knows exactly what it is with
absolute certainty.  This is how the "identified" flag works now, and if it
can only be set magically, it pretty much makes sense.


>  Under such a system, shop keepers could be given some default lore - stuff
> lower than his lore he could in theory identify and give the exact price.  Stuff
> above his lore would be a different story - he could either by it for an
> estimation (what he thinks it is worth, which may be a bonus or penalty for the
> player), or require that the player identify it (through whatever means) before
> he will buy it.
...
>  I could certainly see shop keepers not willing to buy non identified items (too
> risky), or if the player insists, buying them at a greatly reduced rate.

    Makes sense to me.  Without that magical identification mark, the
shopkeeper can't be entirely sure of what he's buying, and will have to use
identification magic himself before it can be resold.  How much less he'll
pay should probably be a function of the item's lore.  The less sure he is
of the item's nature, the less that shopkeeper would be willing to pay for
it.


>  Currently, most of the major shops have detect magic and detect curse tables
> for a fairly low cost (10 and 25 gp respectively I think).  Since one spell
> covers all the inventory, it obviously makes sense to try and store up.
> 
>  The skills of sense curse and sense magic should probably be removed - or if
> they are not, the spells might as well be removed - once you get the skills, no
> reason for the spells anymore.  But if the lore idea is added, then perhaps
> those skills can work up to a higher lore total (for example, the player may
> have a lore skill of 60, but sense magic will work on lore items up to 80).
> With this, players would need to know fairly easily if an item is beyond their
> lore (in real life, the character would look at it and see they have no idea
> what it is).  In terms of game balance, a player would want to set aside those
> high lore items to be dealt with in other ways, and you wouldn't want to
> accidentally drop one because your detect magic didn't work.

    I agree.  The obvious place for describing whether you know what you're
holding is the examination function, but there should be a way to easily
pick the unusual items out of a pile.  Perhaps unidentified items with too
high "lore" could be displayed as their archetype name and the word
"(unknown)" or even just a "(?)"

-- 
            -Dave Noelle,                 dave@Straylight.org
            -the Villa Straylight,  http://www.straylight.org
Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial Email  ==  http://www.cauce.com

Disclaimer: U.C.L.A. doesn't share my opinions; life isn't that good.

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