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Re: My take on the Unique Quests/Castle in Scorn thing



On Tue, 13 Jun 2000, Peter Mardahl wrote:
<snip>
> Your idea does have merit.  It would be cool.  It also doesn't conflict
> with what I've done already at all, IMHO.
  Woohoo! Thanks, now if I get positive feedback from maybe 1 or 2 others
(and no-one sees any drawbacks beyond it being tricky) I'll apply myself
to some sort of code (prolly either detailed pseudocode, or standalone C)
to see if I can get something to work.

<snip>
> Well, as I said, random quests seem like a fine idea, and to do it,
> you'd probably want to use my random map code.  I truly don't see any
> conflict between anything you've proposed and anything I've done:  in
> fact, the contrary:  stuff I've written makes your stuff possible.  
> (E.G., the random map code, the marker object...)

  I had been thinking of using something *similar* but different to your
random map code, mainly because of the sorts of maps the map code creates
compared to the sorts I'm thinking of, but then it occurred to me that you
have those specialmap segments (like the little shops and chapels. BTW,
they all seem to be 6x6, is that a limit in the code?). The marker objects
do sound kind of funky too, I could use them in some other maps as well.
Can you make them decay, like icor?

  Basically, the sort of maps I was thinking, would be more like actual
designed quest maps, like Byron's castle, or Eureca, or the Cellar in
Wolfsburg -Sure, these aren't great examples as some are very detailed,
and some are a bit random mixed up hack'n'slash, but they have a sort of
progress through, avoid traps, solve puzzles thing, you see what I mean?
Obviously yours is kind of like that too, but each random map on its own
won't be particularly- or mebbe I should download them and take a
look before guessing. The lower ones will probably be vicious with
Cyclopes or Dragonmen or Greater Demons or whatever, but its not quite
what I had in mind.

  What would be roughly required would be something like your random-map
code (which may well support it or be easily altered to do so), such that
there are maybe sections of wall that have openable gates, special rooms
that have clever mechanisms,and perhaps some of the bits in different,
separate walls and rooms could be connected. Such fancy gubbinry could
*maybe* be done by means of your little specialmaps, but it would
probably need a separate directory (eg puzzlesections), and code to
handle them differently as the specialmaps are just placed randomly.
  Around the end of the map(s) would be a room with the Character(s) 
relevant to the quest, or one of his minions, or a double/illusion (so
that player can kill him, but it can later turn out he is still alive),
and possibly an important (just for the quest) item.

 The layout code (I know there are different types of layout available,
but I'm not too familiar. Do you have any sort of docs at all on it, or
reeeallly well commented code? :) ) would then set out walls and puzzles
between the finish and the way in, such that the player could always get
through except by his own inability or bad luck- the map wouldn't have
a dead end or an undoable puzzle. Some puzzles could involve a clue or 
an item from the quest-giver. In between the start and finish, amongst
the puzzles, various appropriate monsters.
 It certainly is perfectly possible, supposing we have some way of placing
the different bits sensibly relative to other bits, to make sure that the
whole thing *is* finishable, and the map could also take onboard ideas
from the map-guide (like having at least some 2-unit-wide corridors),
and even bits of more interesting maze algorithms (like in Xmaze, or
Xlaby, a valuable source of eye-strain) either for small sections or the
whole thing.

  Basically there's 2 main bits I'm unsure of- how to combine designing
a puzzly map with actually setting pieces down (avoiding bits
overlapping), and how to choose somewhere for the entrance- I mentioned
using special new floor tiles before, but a good method for selecting
which one to place a new quest in has to know where they all are, for a
start(!), and pick an appropriate one on some map somewhere that the
plot would probably happen in; It would probably help if some other
random quest wasn't already using the tile. Depending on how many maps
use quest-givers, and how active the server is, certain areas may get
saturated with quest entrances (seems unlikely unless only a few tiles
relevant to a class of quest is placed).

  As for the book idea I mentioned, it seems that the titles of books
is set at server startup or something like that, so it may be a
problem. However, perhaps you could have say, Story Book of <Character> to
describe them, Ancient History Book of <Character> to give background,
Modern History Book of <Character>, Volume N to describe results of quests
involving character. Too many modern histories would probably get very
annoying for players unless they needed to know some detail (I can't
imagine what), so they probably should be a bit rare.

  Quest characters longevity could probably be implemented by having main
characters (placed in the Characters file) almost definitely escape or
survive in some way, whilst lesser ones (randomly produced with name and
title and bits of story, etc) could have their chance of survival improved
if there are too few other such characters, and reduced if there are too
many. New random characters would spring up now and again depending on the
number associated with certain areas/ quest-givers.

Thanks for your time, reading another huge post.
Tom Barnes-Lawrence (aka Tomble)
 Changing address Real Soon Now, so any replies to list only. Thanx.
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