Re: CF: alchemy imbalance?

[Mark Wedel <mwedel@scruznet.com>]

Scott Wedel wrote:
> 
> I think this is something to fix.  Any shopkeeper has to figure on
> identifying items before resale.  Thus, buying a pile of unidentified
> daggers for a couple GP each makes sense since the shopkeeper might
> be able to identify in bulk cheaper than the player.  But, no shopkeeper
> is going to pay 200 plat for an unidentified item that might be junk.
> The shopkeeper would first identify it before paying out big money
> especially since identify is not that expensive.
> 
> Thus, I argue that the upper limit that shopkeepers should pay for
> unidentified items is 3 times the cost to identify the item.

 The current problem is that there is no good method for currently figuring out
the value of unidentified items.  The program currently makes various
assumptions based on the value in the archetype and other criteria.

 One thing I plan to add after 0.96.0 is to add an unidentified_value field for
objects, so that value can be properly specified.

 The other problem that does not directly address is values of computer
generated items (for example, the +1 sword or the wands get created within the
make treasure functions, so the server once again tries to guess/assume an
appropriate value).  Some of the more common objects should probably have
pre-made archetypes (ie, sword_plus1, sword_plus2, etc), so that accurate values
and even things like special weights or other stuff could be set.

> 
> Also, I don't understand the logic of identified items.  If a player
> identifies an item then it is identified for all, but how does a
> shopkeeper know that a player has identified the items in question?

 This is a per programming limitation.  If a player identifies something, drops
it on a map, and another player comes later and finds it, how does he know what
it is?  However, at the same time, players working together should be able to
exchange items without a problem.

 I don't see this as a major problem myself - maybe not the most realistic, but
you could argue that something like identify reveals runes that were previously
hidden, and these runes describe the property of the item.

> 
> Seems to me that the underlying theory is that once a player has
> identified an item then the game is handling interaction details by
> skipping the need for the player to say what the item is and how the
> player knows that.  This makes sense from a game playing point of view,
> but it could be expanded to be make more sense.  Since being
> "identified" is really just what player believes item to be as hence
> how item will be presented to others, then player should be able to
> identify an item by typing in what the player believes the item to be.
> Then shopkeepers (and other players) should buy items based upon what
> the player represents, but then get quite mad upon learning that
> items weren't as good as player claimed.  So player might be able to
> pass off something, but have to hurry to leave before shopkeeper finds
> out and tells city guards.

 In real life, the later is not likely to be an issue, and certainly open for
abuse (high level player says items is something really good, sells it, and
quickly departs, or even if the guards are summoned, not a challenge for the
player.)

 Of course the other 'mystery' is how shop keepers have an infinite amount of
money to buy anything presented to them.

 I also don't really like the above because it addes further complication to
selling items (now need to parse the text the player entered and try to
translate that to a real item - if a player types something and the computer
interperts it differently, a player could get pretty upset).  It also adds the
fact that experience players (not necessarily characters) will know the values
and get more money.  The third is that it would seem to just slow down the
transaction (in theory, you should be able to barter for merchandise also).

 If such a system as above was going to be implimented, having a reputation
field (ala Baldur's Gate) might be more relevant - a characters shop reputation
may go up if what they say there are selling matches the actual item, and go
down various amounts if it is a complete lie.

 However, it could be argued that the shop keeper would always identify items he
buys before paying out.   This may not be a bad way to go, as it is currently
identified when it hits the floor.  This would actually be a mixed blessing for
players - on the one hand, they would not have to identify the misc items before
selling them to get full price, and on the other, they get nothing for cursed
items.  But in either case, you don't get a chance to resind the offer - if you
drop an item, you sold it - if it turns out to be a +4 sword that you thought
was something else and you really wanted that +4 sword, you now need to re-buy
it from the merchant (which is likely to cost a lot more in markup than just
identifying it would have been.)

> 
> BTW, this reminds that cities or grouped maps (maybe based upon map
> directory structure) should have a persistent player status so that
> beating up city guards in one map means all city guards are now hostile
> and that they are still hostile if the player shows up after the maps
> has reset.  Likewise, if a player does good things in a city then the
> people remember and player has CHA bonus in that town.  Such a feature
> could go a long way to making the world more interesting since the
> world would no longer be resetting to vanilla every hour or two.  The
> persistant status could also be used to prevent a player from repeating
> a quest too often while still leaving the quest for others.

 Unfortunately, there is no currently method of saving player relations to maps
in the map itself (so to actually save a map to disk that the guards hate player
XXXX requires various extensions, and gets even more convoluted if that player
is not currently in the game)

 This could be done with invisible objects - various reputation elements.  The
maps would have to be extended to include what vicinity the map belongs to.
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