Re: [VANILLA-LIST:3149] Re: Continuous scoring

[Tom Holub <doosh@best.com>]

I don't think high-clue teams stockpile armies very much.  TGW did this
season, and lost four games.  Jettish is very big about not taking planets
in enemy space if you don't have extra armies, and there's some sentiment
in that direction, but I don't think it's an overpowering strategy, any
more than ogging was back when ogging was considered the best strategy.

On Mon, May 08, 2000 at 03:29:13PM -0400, Paulsen, Brian wrote:
> Sorry to expose the length of time that I've been away from the 
> game, but what currently happens between high-clue teams 
> now?  It sounds as if one team is stockpiling armies and another
> is using its armies to expand and get the 15-5 advantage.
> 
> Where does the 5-15 side keep the armies?  Does it throw
> them all on a base?  Why doesn't the other team horde a bunch
> of armies of its own?  After all, with a 15-5 advantage, armies
> should be somewhat easy to come by, right?
> 
> Again, it has been a long time since I've played, but I'm very
> curious about this strategy.
> 
> Brian
> aka FreeKill
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:	Dave Ahn [SMTP:ahn@vec.wfubmc.edu]
> > Sent:	Monday, May 08, 2000 3:23 PM
> > To:	inlcouncil@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU; vanilla-list@us.netrek.org
> > Subject:	[VANILLA-LIST:3149] Re: Continuous scoring
> > 
> > On Mon, May 08, 2000 at 11:07:55AM -0700, Tom Holub wrote:
> > > 
> > > You also are assuming that we don't care about the effect on the 
> > > predictability of games.  Your system makes game results more
> > predictable;
> > > the existing predictability is already too high.
> > 
> > Yes, I am.  But so do you.  Shortening the gametime to 60 minutes also
> > makes the game results more predictable because irrelevant portions of
> > the game are simply cut out.  Both ideas yield the same result: a more
> > interesting game.
> > 
> > > You have a fallacy in your thinking here.  A team that is behind 15-5 in
> > > planets but has 25 armies is not behind by 5 planets in the same way
> > that a
> > > team with no armies is.
> > 
> > I intentionally said "successfully delivering 25 armies" as opposed to
> > "being up by 25 armies" to avoid this misunderstanding.  Oh well.
> > 
> > > Trading control of territory for consolidation of resources is not just
> > > a netrek strategy, it's a war strategy, and often an effective one.
> > 
> > Yes, it is.  However, it is seems to be the _only_ effective strategy in
> > use now between two reasonably equal Netrek teams.  If football had a
> > strategy that consistently outperformed others like in Netrek, it would
> > become a lot less interesting.
> > 
> > > Again, with this kind of system the game is over 30 minutes before the
> > > end.  Emprical evidence shows that 11-8-1 or closer is the expected
> > > score between two reasonably equal teams in a 90-minute game.  If behind
> > > behind 11-8-1 is now a winning condition, you've now given the team
> > that's
> > > AHEAD a great incentive to play passively and store armies; how are you
> > > going to get a 12-7-1 advantage against a team that just controls their
> > > front and never tries to drop armies in your space?
> > 
> > Given two equal teams, the advantage should be close or equal to zero, so
> > your scenario wouldn't happen.  If one team dominates during opening, then
> > the opposing team has the incentive to aggressively win the mid-game to
> > negate the advantage.  Even if one team gains both handicaps going into
> > the end-game, the granularity of the advantage should be relative to the
> > degree of dominance.  I used the fixed half-planet handicap to illustrate
> > the point.
> > 
> > You have valid observations about this system, but I think that some of
> > them are overstated or at least addressable.
> > 
> > -- 
> > Dave Ahn <ahn@vec.wfubmc.edu>        |  "When you were born, you cried and
> > the
> >                                      |  world rejoiced.  Try to live your
> > life
> > Virtual Endoscopy Center             |  so that when you die, you will
> > rejoice
> > Wake Forest Univ. School of Medicine |  and the world will cry."  -1/2
> > jj^2
> > 
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